19: WoodenBoat
Interview with Carl Cramer, Publisher, December 2007
Play audio (approximately 30 minutes)
This installment of Periodical Radio is about the popular magazine WoodenBoat: The magazine for wooden boat owners, builders, and designers. The story of this magazine’s beginning is worth quoting from their web page:
“Jon Wilson founded WoodenBoat in September 1974 . . .. Jon assembled the magazine from his (non-log) cabin in North Brooksville, Maine. All was accomplished without electricity or plumbing, and with his telephone nailed to a tree half a mile down the road. Taking issue #1 to the Newport Sailboat Show, he sold 400 individual copies and signed up 200 subscribers. Targeted to boatbuilders, designers, and wooden boat owners, WoodenBoat is published six times each year, and now has a circulation of approximately 100,000.”
To learn more about WoodenBoat, my guest is Publisher Carl Cramer.
Steve: Carl, welcome to Periodical Radio. In my introduction, I quoted the story from your web site about how Jon Wilson started WoodenBoat. Could you flesh out the story a little bit for us, and describe how the magazine launched what is now an extensive enterprise of publications, shows, and schools?
Carl: Sure, Steve. Thanks for having me on today. Jon was a wooden boat builder who felt there was a need for a resource to communicate the experience of skilled boat builders before they passed along, and not just before they passed along, to broaden that communication and experience. So he started the magazine in the typical kitchen table experience. I’ve seen the photographs, so I know it’s the case. He had a phone on a tree on the end of his driveway, which I think was about a quarter mile long. Low and behold, right from the beginning it was a huge success, and continues to be today.
Steve: Carl, how did you get involved?
Carl: Well, I actually subscribed to the magazine from the very beginning. Every year I’d apply for a job, in more and more desperate terms. Hopefully Jon never saved all my resumes, because I think I took some liberties. But after only 15 years I got hired, and I’ve been here now for 20 years.
Steve: So you started as an editor?
Carl: No, I actually started in the ad department. Prior to being here I had worked in magazine publishing in other parts of Maine. It was just a great opportunity. I had friends who worked here, and I lived about an hour and a half away. Wooden boats in particular have always been one of my passions since I was a kid. So now I’m very fortunate to have vocation and avocation working together.
Steve: Wonderful. What do you enjoy most about being the publisher of WoodenBoat?
Carl: I think the people I work with, our readers, our advertisers, and the boats themselves. Every wooden boat has a story, and to have the wonderful ability to hear those stories, to see these incredible boats wherever they are, it’s so invigorating.
Steve: What’s the special allure of building a boat of wood, as opposed to fiberglass, or steel, or whatever?
Carl: Well I can think of several right off the top of my head. It’s pretty easy to work with wood. I wouldn’t even know how to build a boat in fiberglass, and aluminum is no easier. Wood’s a nice material to work with, it takes shapes very well, and perhaps most importantly there are so many designs available, both historical and modern, that you can select from. You don’t have to start from scratch in that regard.
Steve: Could you describe for us the division of labor between a publisher and an editor? I suspect most of my listeners wouldn’t have a clear idea of who would do what.
Carl: Oh, editors have the greatest jobs in the world, they don’t do anything.
Steve: [laughs]
Carl: I’m only kidding. The publisher is a different concept depending on where you are. If you work for a Madison Avenue publishing house, the publisher is really a high powered ad sales person. Unlike at WoodenBoat, because what I do is I’m in charge of the different departments that go into producing the magazine, whether that be editorial, circulation, which takes care of our subscribers and our news stand buyers, the art department that’s responsible for the design and production of the magazine, or the advertising department.
Steve: I see. One of the things that struck me about WoodenBoat is that advertising is essential for all magazines to survive, but for WoodenBoat the advertisements are really an essential component of the information your readers get from the magazine. Would you agree with that?
Carl: I absolutely agree. In every survey we’ve done, the vast, vast majority, I want to say 97%, of our readers find that the advertising is critical for them to find products or to learn about new processes or modern technologies such as how to sheath, or a new paint that might be out on the market. So yeah, it’s deemed critical for all of them. That’s a wonderful combination. In too many other magazines, either the advertising is perceived as a hindrance to the reading experience, or just as a way of racking up profits.
Steve: Do you have strict rules about what sort of advertisements you’ll accept, or does it just naturally work out that the ads fit your audience?
Carl: Typically the ads fit the audience. We’ve had to interject or deny a few over the years, but it’s pretty easy for our market. Everybody’s trying to sell their products or services, and they know if it works or if it doesn’t work. We have a lot of advertisers who have been with us for a very long time, and it’s just a great relationship.
Steve: Within the WoodenBoat enterprise, how do you balance and decide the roles between what purpose the magazine serves, and what purpose your web site serves? How do they relate to one another?
Carl: I think we’re probably like many, although we’re a little behind. We’ve had the web site since very early on in the internet. In fact I used to have an electronic bulletin board on a spare desk in my office, and it would make a pinging noise any time anybody logged on, and that was great. We’re going to be doing some things for the web site that will be more tangible as electronic supplements, really, or enhancements to the magazine itself. If you go to the web site and can see in addition to some digital magazines and search items for past issues and articles, there’s also a very active community of people on the WoodenBoat forum, which is a great resource for somebody who . . .. Let’s say, I was reading one today. A woman thought there were termites in a boat she was working on. It was just a very spirited exchange from readers or members around the world offering their advice. To me, that’s such a great tool. Now they don’t need us at the magazine identifying the bugs for them, but many other people, particularly in southern climes had had experience similar to what this person did.
Steve: Do you have a sense of whether the web site boosts circulation, or has a neutral effect, or hurts the circulation? Do people go to the web site instead of subscribing?
Carl: No, I don’t think they do, because currently all our issues aren’t there. I think it definitely enhances it. From tracking, we’re able to view some, not a huge number, I’d say a reasonable level of new readers have come in through the web site.
Steve: I’d like to ask about your subscriber profile. First, what’s the mix between subscriptions and newsstand sales for WoodenBoat?
Carl: Oh, we’re about 52,000 subscribers, and about 45,000 newsstand buyers.
Steve: That’s a very significant proportion for newsstand.
Carl: Oh yeah, it is. I wish I could understand it a little better. I think some people like the convenience of shopping at the local newsstand. But in the boating magazine field, we’re far and away the market leader in terms of copies sold per month or per issue.
Steve: Do you have many subscribers outside of the United States?
Carl: Yeah, I think about 20% of our subscribers are out of the U.S. We have strong support from Canada, from Europe, particularly Western Europe, and I don’t think to much surprise Australia and New Zealand, as well.
Steve: What portion of your readers are men? Do you know?
Carl: Ninety-seven percent.
Steve: Ninety-seven percent?
Carl: Yep.
Steve: I noticed though that quite a few members of your staff are women. Did you intentionally seek out female staff members?
Carl: Intentionally? No, no, no. Our staff’s interesting. We’re in a small town on the coast of Maine, a long way from anywhere. The population is about 800 in this town of Brooklin. So many of our staff come from the local communities, and that’s great. Not necessarily women, we have men here who are locals as well.
Steve: I think there’s a stereotype about men in particular being obsessive about boats, and obsessive about woodworking. Is your magazine about love and obsession?
Carl: Oh, sure! Isn’t everything that’s good in life?
Steve: Sure.
Carl: We do various endeavors. We have an ongoing grassroots project called Family Boatbuilding where we help people new to boating to build a real boat, and they take it home at the conclusion of two and a half days. What I love having watched this over the years is, in so many of the families the girls, the daughters, the granddaughters are into it every bit as much as the boys. Sometimes they have a better ability to focus on what they’re doing. They’re not so easily distracted. I see that as maybe we’ll get our gender demographics more in line with parity. Who knows, I hope in my lifetime.
Steve: So you do see that as something of a trend, of more women becoming interested?
Carl: I think so. My theory is that anybody who builds a boat is going to be a boater for life, and that’s why this grass roots family boatbuilding to me offers us a lot of hope for the future.
Steve: A person can’t just go down to their Home Depot and buy lumber appropriate for building a boat. Are the environmental and economic issues surrounding appropriate lumber an issue of importance to your readers?
Carl: Oh, very definitely. Very definitely, Steve.
Steve: Tell us a little about that issue.
Carl: Well, on the one hand you’ve got customers, say more well-to-do customers, who are having boats built and they want them built with exotic wood. I know many boat builders are trying to urge those customers to instead get environmentally conscious and let’s educate them on more sustainable products. Now, how successful that will be is hard to determine. If a customer really wants his 60 foot power boat to be mahogany, he’ll certainly find a builder. We just have to be cognizant of it and communicate it to the community that sustainability is a big issue.
Steve: Are there lumbers available from the forests in the eastern United States that are appropriate?
Carl: Yes, there are. There’s some good wood, and some good forestry management practices that are going to actually increase our output, so that’s encouraging.
Steve: What kind of woods are those, and where do they grow?
Carl: Oh, you can have maple, and ash. They grow I guess mostly in the northeast and the northwest. The lumbers we used to log like Sitka spruce is so hard to find now. We’re all going to have to adjust to the changing species, which will be good. I mean it’s a challenge, but it will be good.
Steve: What are some other major concerns of your readers? Generally, I know that the magazine is largely about the techniques of building boats, and stories about particular designs.
Carl: There are some issues going on in Southern California, for example. There seems to be increased local pressure on marinas not having wooden boats in because they’re perceived as being live-aboards, and that’s not what marinas want to have. There are water access issues, which are by no means unique to the world of wooden boats, but are an issue for all boats. Those are probably domestically the two biggest issues.
Steve: Carl, we’ve seen a lot of mergers and consolidations in the mass media, but WoodenBoat remains independent. Have you ever been tempted to join forces with some other press or larger organization?
Carl: Not a bit, no. When Jon started this 35 years ago, ever since, and increasingly so, we’ve had no interest in being acquired by somebody larger. I think a great deal of what I think makes our magazine so great is the fact that we’re allowed to be who we are. We’re independent, and that gives us freedom to develop ideas and pursue them and hopefully have some of them succeed.
Steve: Do you have any favorite stories from the last several issues?
Carl: No, I think every one’s a favorite. I don’t mean to be dodging your question, Steve. It’s always such a thrill when a new issue comes out.
Steve: So you forsee it remaining as a print magazine, so the web site isn’t going to replace the print?
Carl: That’s correct, not a bit. I know there’s tons of blogs, there’s tons of forecasts of the imminent demise of print, but to me something like WoodenBoat is a matter of perfection when it’s ink on good paper. The web site is used to enhance or expand upon that service.
Steve: How does your location…. First of all I’d like for you to describe for our listeners your location. And then my question is how does that location influence the magazine?
Carl: Well, we’re in the town of Brooklin. A local boat builder put up a sign several years ago, “Welcome to Brooklin, Maine, Boatbuilding Capital of the World”. That’s a little tongue in cheek, but on a per capita basis, we’ve got a lot of boat builders in this small community of 800 people, including some of the finest wooden boat builders in the world. So the proximity to such a pool of talent is just infectious. It’s so great to be able to exchange experiences, to be part of a community that’s on the coast of Maine, with lobster fishing families and boat builders. That’s really wonderful.
Steve: So do they teach in your school?
Carl: Yes, they do. Some of them do, and on a continuing basis.
Steve: You sponsor a whole series of courses, is that correct?
Carl: Yeah. We have, oh god, what’s the number. I think we have about 800 students who go through here in the summer. Those are mostly one week courses where people come to learn to build a wooden boat, design a wooden boat, repair a wooden boat, learn how sail, learn how to navigate. There’s blacksmithing classes, you name it, if it has anything to do with wooden boats and the water, we’ll put that into our course schedule.
Steve: What’s your take on the balance of using power tools and hand tools for that sort of work?
Carl: There are appropriate jobs for each, and that’s how we teach the classes.
Steve: How about laminates and other types of wood other than solid woods?
Carl: Um, yeah, absolutely. That’s modern wooden boatbuilding, is epoxy and wood, which gives such a strong, stiff, and light structure that can’t be surpassed by any other material.
Steve: Carl, what else would you like listeners to know about WoodenBoat, either the magazine or the process of building boats?
Carl: I’d love your listeners to just take a look at us. Go to woodenboat.com, see if there’s anything there of interest. Believe me, anyone can build a boat. The best way to do that is to just try. Find a boat you want to build, either from our web site, or some other web site, and do it.
Steve: And the variety, I know you mentioned is almost endless. We can go all the way from a kayak or a dory all the way up to a schooner.
Carl: Yeah, absolutely.
Steve: Do the tall ships come through Brooklin?
Carl: No, they don’t. We’re off the circuit for some reason.
Steve: I have one last question. The woodworking magazines produced by Taunton Press have a real market for the back issues going back to issue number one. Is WoodenBoat also the kind of publication where people are very interested in the back issues because of the information contained in them?
Carl: Oh, very definitely. It’s interesting. I think we started WoodenBoat two months before Fine Woodworking. So there are a lot of similarities there. What works in one market tends to work in the other one, as well. Not that our market is nearly as large as Fine Woodworking’s is.
Steve: Have you ever considered creating the full back volumes, either as a book….
Carl: Oh, yeah.
Steve: Do you do that, are they available?
Carl: We’ve done it as a DVD, and we’re in the process of updating them all again, so yeah, we’re definitely doing that. There used to be a copyright issue, but we got rid of that problem
Steve: How did you resolve that problem?
Carl: We just paid one author far too much money to concur . . ..
Steve: . . .to include that, because some of the authors had retained copyright on their articles?
Carl: No, but at the time that happened the Supreme Court hadn’t ruled in the favor of National Geographic, which was the test case [Greenberg v. National Geographic Society].
Steve: I see. Well, Carl, thank you very much. I really appreciate you taking the time.
Carl: It’s been a pleasure. I’d love to know when it airs.
Steve: Sure thing. It will be continuously available on the web when it’s ready. Our students here in the communications program produce the shows.
Carl: Oh, great.
Steve: So it takes a few days, but not too long. I’ll definitely send you the link when it’s ready.
Carl: Great. Thanks a lot, Steve, I’ve enjoyed it.
Steve: Thank you. To subscribe to WoodenBoat or to learn more about the WoodenBoat enterprise, go online to http://woodenboat.com. Thank you for listening to this installment of Periodical Radio. I'm your host, Steve Black.